Faculty Comments from the +/- Survey 2008
"Plus/minus grading will be an effective tool for instructors to motivate students to work harder, and it will also be more fair. I am strongly in favor of this proposal."
"I think plus-minus grading is a mistake, and will create many headaches. In most cases it would be a greater degree of precision than the accuracy of the data allow.
If the students (still) wanted it, I would not mind as much. But they do not. If it is mandatory I foresee a huge increase in grade complaints."
I very much oppose any plus/minus system.
I think our students deserve to have the plus/minus system to help them in their search for higher quality jobs and further studies.
"The usual system of pluses and minuses would greatly aid in describing the nuances of student performance. As it is, the system at WSU greatly contributes to grade inflation. Grading is a limited tool. A plus and minus system would make it more versatile and useful. Please realized that the most progressive schools have moved beyond grading, and use instead narrative evaluations. It is very clear that the WSU population is not ready for that step, since it would require a more enlightened approach to learning which is nowhere evident here. In sum, the proposed change of adding more nuance to the grading system is a step in the right direction, but only a step. More should be done to educate students, staff and faculty about the real nature of evaluation. This is nothing short of a notional revolution at WSU."
I like the plus/minus system because it allows for more precise measurement.
"Coming from a school which used plus/minus grading, I have had a very hard time adjusting. I think the plus/minus system is more fair to the students and gives professors more options."
I think this is a great idea and hope that it becomes an option.
I don't see how +/- grades can hurt if you leave it up to individual professors.
"+/- grading will be fairer, as it is more gradual.
The current system leaves too big a gap between adjacent grades."
"I believe that a plus/minus system will benefit teachers and students, but that whether or not it should be used in an individual class should be at the discretion of the instructor."
I hope faculty aren't responding to this survey without being knowledgeable about the adv/disadv of the plus/minus system. I wish the email or survey could have been directly linked to some background regarding this issue. I went online to find some info.
It would make evaluation of grades through time and across institutions unduly cumbersome. An A+ would perforce be above a 4.0 which traditionally is as high as one can get. Would a B- fall into the C range of 2.5 or better or would a 3.0 be a B-? Not in favor. It serves no purpose to add this complication.
"There should be a way for superior students to be rewarded for 4.0 (or 100 percent-plus) work, and that is why the A+ is needed. The simpler scale mentioned as the second option is much easier on both teachers and students."
I am very strongly in favor of this proposal and the flexibility it allows.
good job with creating the survey questions.
"The introduction of +,- grading system will lead to a serious confusion and grade inflation."
"I support the plus/minus grading system, not because of philosophical arguments about objectivity or accuracy of grading, but because 80% of Carnegie Research institutions use it, KU and K. State use it, and because I think it's healthy for WSU to join the rest of the nation rather than running to the barricades to prevent changes from happening that are far overdue. I think it's important to communicate to the student body (at least those for whom the grading scale may be a burning issue) that it's not ""okay"" to be so involved in extra-curricular activities that you don't want to put in extra time to achieve 95% compared with 90% performance in a class. Many many activities pull students off focus from their academic commitments. We only undermine academia and ourselves by responding to what the SGA rep said in Faculty Senate with ""you're right, what faculty have to offer through curriculum is not as important as everything else that compels you."""
the survey messed up on me. I selected college of engineering and then it asked me again my college but did not give the option for college of engineering (I selected business)
Plus/minus grading gives professors a greater level of precision. The difference between a B and C is large. Plus/minus grading gives professors more freedom to choose the grades they feel are appropriate.
"+/- grading is more work for faculty.
+/- grading will lead to more conflicts with students as the grades are parsed along tighter lines."
"I think the whole idea of plusses and minuses should be dropped. Twice now WSU students have expressed their opposition to it. Adding + and - can only lead to time-consuming bargaining and bickering over grades. Every student who has a B+ will try to squeeze an A- out of their professor. I know, as I went through this hell for five years before coming to Wichita State. I don't want to experience that again here."
"Faculty must have the option of choosing between the current system and the +/- system. If this option is not available, then I would oppose changing to a +/- system at all."
"There is a large difference between a B+ and a B- and the straight grade system does not account for this. If it is adopted, I prefer the latter of A=4, 3.7=A-, 3.5=B+, 3=B, etc.
I think it should be an all or nothing situation."
"Students are grade conscious enough as it is. Some faculty and departments already engage in grade inflation practices. I believe plus and minus systems simply encourage more grade consciousness and more grade inflation and both are a bad idea. Personally, I use a point-based grading system and do not convert it to percentages."
"I am opposed to a plus minus grading system. The faculty should have the courage to give the grade that the students deserve. Should be debate in a few years whether there should be a plus, plus minus minus system? As a grad coordinator, it further complicates the admission process to have to deal with such oddball grading systems."
"Mid-level grade options (AB,BC, C) give more options for grading and skill assessment reporting."
"As a graduate of the Univ. of Wis. - Madison, I am familiar with the +/- system. As a teaching assistant I graded students with the system. It worked well; I recommend it: A AB B BC C D F."
"I've answered the questions but an totally against a plus /minus system."
"I am strongly in favor of having the *option* to assign plusses and minuses to my students' grades. I think that it should not be made mandatory or else we are asking for a bunch of trouble.
Finally, I am opposed to allowing an A+ to count for more than 4.0 because if students leave WSU with GPAs higher than 4.0 it will look weird. Allowing grades to go higher than 4.0 might undermine our credibility as an institution."
"I feel that there is no data (validated research data or otherwise) that would support the changing of the current grading system. This will not make students work harder, will not do anything to diminish ""grade inflation"" on our campus, nor will it inflate our national image. It simply will change (not change for the better, just change) the guessing required of any grading system that we might adopt. This is simply change for the sake of change."
This survey has a built-in bias favoring plus - minus grading systems.
this is nuts-we have more important things to do that talk about + and - on grades. Do this actually DO anything for the student? Will an employer be more apt to employ a student who gets an A- over a B+ in the same course all other things being equal?
None
"I have wanted this for a long time. If a student gets an A-, it sends a message to work harder. In the music department we have the same students for 8 semesters or more. It would be a good tool for motivating the student."
"Why not use the plus and minus so they appear on the transcript for the student but not change the grading scale numerically. That would reduce some problems with grade bartering and at the same time allow an instructor to make a distinction between a low C, for example and a high C grade"
"I have used a plus /minus system in grading lab at work and assembling grades for more than 35 years at WSU and then converting final grades to a straight system. I have found it very usable and have not had problems with it."
"(1) One common objection appears to be difficulty in making ""fine"" grade breakdowns. An easy way to avoid this is to use the old grade breakdown of A,B,C,D, and linearly interpolate the plus-minus grade. This way, there is no need to have a uniform spacing between A and B, B and C, etc.
(2) Another objection I've heard is that more students might be begging for the next higher grade. If any instructor gives in to this kind of persuasion at present, at least the difference in the grade point will be units of 1/3rds instead of 1.
(3) Some instructors may feel that the difficulty of their exams and the method of grading are perfectly matched with a preassigned score reflecting the letter grade,- I don't. So, if I err, I'll err in units of 1/3rd of a grade point rather than 1."
"An A should be 4 points. (PERIOD)
I would prefer to be able to give students +/- grades but not have them influence gpa, i.e. keep the straight 4,3,2,1 point system."
"I would like to see this, but I'm not holding my breath."
"I don't generally follow university politics, so I probably missed why this discussion is taking place. Which begs a question. Why is this discussion taking place? It seems a bit of a waste to time. There was no opening paragraph at the beginning of this survey to indicate why changing to +/- grades is important to the future of WSU... I don't see that it is. But I have not heard an argument for it."
I do not think this is a good idea
"Faculty senate addressed this issue less than seven years ago and it was NOT approved by the faculty. This current survey focuses on ""how"" not ""if"" the plus/minus system should be adopted. My concern is that will lead to yet another form of grade compression."
I think it's unnecessary
"We seem to have no institutional memory. This questions has arisen previously and has been voted down. The faculty who think they can rate students with the precision needed for a +/- system tend to be in the humanities; the mathematicians know better.
Our student body has so many other factors impinging on their classroom performance that a +/- system is NOT going to reflect their abilities."
"I think plus minus grading system proposed now is very helpful for faculty members to more accurately evaluate students, and let students to get the grade they really belong to.
I appreciate all your effort !Regards, Bin Tang from Computer Science"
"The plus-minus system certainly has benefits for students. However, the additional clerical load on teachers would, in my opinion, rob teachers of time and strength needed to actually teach. Teaching should be, to the larger extent, imparting knowledge, and, to only a lesser extent, assessing and attesting."
"This is about the third or fourth time Senate has investigated this since I have been here. Using technology to get input from faculty, however, is a first. Good luck."
"I think we should not spend time and energy on unimportant questions like this one. The old system works quite well."
I firmly am against the plus/minus system. I have taught in institutions with both kinds of systems and feel that this is merely a further diluting of what can easily be accomplished by individual professors.
"there is absolutely no need to change the grading system. Both the faculty and students have a gut awareness of what an A, B, C, etc means. The argument that it distinguishes between A+ and A- students is specious. By the end of their career, A- students accumulate sufficient B's to make that distinction. Professors should not have the ability to transform the grading system into a bazaar where favorites are awarded A+, non favorites are awards A or A- and no one can complain because no one has a gut feeling for what the grades mean. Professors in disciplines without content should be punished by needing to award an A to everyone as they have always done in the past. Do not muddy the waters for good students and their teachers in disciplines with content"
"if you don't want +/_ grades, why continue to ask questions after you select no?"
"I have heard that some schools record +/- on the transcript, but that as far as calculating grade point averages, the +/- does not count (same old 4.0 system, in other words). This might satisfy everyone -- those who want to record somewhere official the shadings that +/-allow, and those who are concerned about GPA impact, worries about C-s in programs that require a 2.0 average, etc."
"This is not rocket science. Many profs use a % scoring system for graded work. A 90% under the current system is ""A"" work as is 98%. Equal letter grade but not even close in terms of effort and accomplishment. Those that squeak by should be differentiated from those that are superior at each grade level. A plus/minus system allows this to happen."
"Although I am opposed to any modification, if this is to pass I suggest the plus/ no plus system. The plus/minus system leads to too many breakpoints. Even a 1,000 point total, there are only 30 points between one level and the next. This leads to more negotiating by students for a bump because they are more often near the border."
I am wholeheartedly against this proposal. You are providing students with additional strike zones to argue grades at the end of the semester. This is a non-value-added proposal.
"A plus/minus system will result in three times as many arguments with students about grades, and three times as many hard decisions for faculty. And for no visible benefits."
"When I was in grad school, we went from the current system to a plus/minus system, and I found it actually lowered the intensity of grade disputes. This is not surprising-the difference between a C and a C+ isn't as vital as the difference between a c and a B."
I think there is little value to be added to the change in the grading system by implementing this process. Will the grades better reflect what our students know? Will it affect their ability to get jobs? I doubt it.
Why not just use the percentages directly?
I think standardization of a grading system that allows for better differentiation among students is a necessary practice to allow room for rigor. It also creates incremental goals for students to strive for in a natural way.
All this would do is turn 5 possible outcomes into 13 or 14 or 15 possible outcomes. A waste of time and effort for the results it would deliver
I hope the group realized that the advising and staffs will be the one who have to do the ground works and you have consider all the possible implications as a staff not a professor
"I am for the change because it will increase the fairness among students. However, the faculty must be more precise in grading. With new grading system, deviation from true grade must shrink, giving less luxury for faculty in confidence."
"I came from a university that had a plus/minus grading system. I don't know of any faculty there that didn't prefer the system. Once you have graded on a plus/minus scale, it is hard to revert to straight letter grades."
"Plus/minus grading would give us a lot of flexibility, and would help encourage students to work harder, and to believe that improvement is possible. I think it's important that this form of grading is optional for the individual professor."